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Wednesday, September 25, 2013

Naval and Maritime EXPO 2013


The following is a show report on the Naval and Maritime EXPO 2013, being held in Kochi, Kerala, from September 23 to 27, about which the ‘desi’ broadcast/print media is either not aware of, nor does not want to be aware of, or couldn’t care at all!
The Indian Navy (IN) seems to have belatedly learnt that it pays to standardise on sub-systems. And that’s why the very same SAGEM-built SIGMA 40 ring laser gyros that equip the Navy’s existing four Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs will in future also be installed on board the eight surviving Type 877EKM SSKs. In addition, the L-3 KEO-supplied Model 86 non-hull penetrating masts that are already on the four Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs will also be installed on the Type 877EKM SSKs. US-based L-3 KEO also owns Italy-based RIVA Calzoni, which has supplied such periscopes and masts for the nuclear-powered S-2/Arihant, S-3 and S-4 submarines. The SIGMA 40 RLG-INS is also on board the three Project 17 FFGs, three Project 15A DDGs, four Project 28 ASW guided-missile corvettes, as well as on the six Project 1135.6 FFGs, the S-2/Arihant and on Project 71/IAC-1/Vikrant. The four Project 15B DDGs and seven Project 17A FFGs too will use this RLG-INS.
Terma of Denmark's combined S/X band coastal surveillance radar for India
 
Pipavav Defence & Offshore Engineering Co Ltd is presently building advanced OPVs (AOPV), which was approved by the CCNS and DAC immediately after 26/11 and for which a global tender was released on March 31, 2010. Seven contenders responded with tender bids and on June 7 the same year, and Pipavav was selected as the preferred bidder. For executing this project, Pipavav has contracted Alion Canada to provide marine engineering, naval architecture and vessel design/construction expertise.
After waiting for almost a decade for the DRDO-owned NPOL to deliver the Nagan low-frequency active towed-array sonar, the IN has decided that enough is enough, and was awarded Germany-based ATLAS Elektronik the contract for supplying its ACTAS ultra low-frequency active/passive towed-array sonar for the IN’s three Project 17 FFGs, three Project 15A DDGs four Project 28 ASW corvettes, and the three upgraded Project 1241PE ASW corvettes (INS Abhay, INS Ajay and INS Akshay), which were also re-engined with MTU-1163 diesel engines two years ago by Kolkata-based GRSE. The ACTAS is also likely to be acquired in future for the IN’s six Project 1135.6 FFGs, seven Project 17A FFGs and four Project 15B DDGs.
Companies that lost out to ATLAS Elektronik included L-3 Communications’ Ocean Systems Division (offering the CDS-100 LFATS) and THALES (offering the CAPTAS). However, for the ultra low-frequency dipping sonar requirement (some 40 units for the to-be-upgraded Sea King Mk42Bs and Ka-29PLs, plus the 16 SH-70B Seahawks that will be ordered in future), the IN is likely to go for the HELRAS from L-3 Communications’ Ocean Systems Division. In other words, the NPOL-developed low-frequency Mihir dipping sonar too has been declared as being unworthy of operational induction by the IN.
For the IN’s requirement for two deep submergence rescue vehicles (DSRV), the Remora from Canada’s Ocean Works and the LR-7 from Rolls-Royce have been shortlisted. The offer for two Project 18270 Bester-class DSRVs from Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corp has been rejected. The process to acquire the DSRV was started more than six years ago, and bids were invited for a second time in 2010, after an anonymous letter of complaint addressed to the MoD had alleged that the Remora DSRV, which was selected way back in 2008, was chosen by dubious means.
Meanwhile, all four OEMs bidding for the Project 75I single-hulled programme—Spain’s Navantia, Germany’s TKMS, France’s DCNS and Russia’s United Shipbuilding Corp—have given in writing their ability to incorporate two separate plug-in in each of their SSK offers, with one plug-in containing an AIP system that is specified by the IN, and the other plug-in containing eight cannisters containing the vertically-launched BrahMos-1 Block-1 supersonic anti-ship cruise missile. This, however, is easier said than done. This is because, while all four OEMs have adequate expertise in terms of supplying the AIP plug-ins, none of them have any experience in incorporating VLS cells for missiles like the BrahMos-1 Block-1. Therefore, should the IN choose to insist on the BrahMos-1 for installation on board the six Project 75I SSKs, it will not only inflate the acquisition costs of the SSKs, but will also pose SSK hull re-design challenges that may further delay the service-induction of these six SSKs.
In my personal view, therefore, if the IN insists on the BrahMos-1, then the IN should also specify that the Project 75I SSKs ought to be double-hulled vessels. And if that happens, then the only logical options available come from TKMS and DCNS. In fact, the latter had unveiled its conceptual SMX-21 SSK at the Euronaval 2002 exhibition in Paris, and it was then touted as being the solution for maximum weapons storage without increasing the SSK’s displacement. Based on twin pressure-hull architecture, the concept allows to load up to 30 heavyweight weapons within a hull that displaces only 2,700 tonnes, thanks to ‘mission modules’ located between the hulls. This architecture allows great flexibility and can accommodate every type of mission, by simply changing the modules. Strong safety improvements are made by separating the crew-living areas from potentially hazardous zones.
For the four Class 209/Type 1500 SSKs, the IN has shortlisted two types of ASCMs: a combination of Novator 3M-54E Klub-S supersonic ASCM and 3M-14E LACM, and Boeing’s UGM-84A Harpoon.
Lastly, a word of caution for all those miserably ill-informed jingos who are under the erroneous impression that China has developed the DF-21D MRBM as an anti-ship ballistic missile. For, just consider the sheer challenges in terms of target acquisition: In case of the South China Sea, three bands of 46 satellites each (138 spacecraft in all) operating in 40-degree inclined polar orbits would be required to provide constant fleet monitoring. The size of the satellite constellation is driven by the need for continuous coverage and high resolution. High resolution dictates low-earth orbits. Low-earth orbits in turn dictate how many satellites must be in each band to avoid gaps in coverage, and also how many bands there must be to cover the whole sea given a 300nm field-of-view per band. Continuous coverage could be achieved from higher altitudes using fewer satellites, but resolution would deteriorate to a point where it was no longer suitable for use as targetting data.

257 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 257 of 257
Prasun K. Sengupta said...

Not quite. The engine core is the most critical element, not blisks or SCBs. SCBs are being produced at HAL's Koraput facility.

Bhaswar said...

Is there something wrong with the Kabini core?

Sir but there are different generations of SCBs, which one is the one being manufactured at Koraput? And aren't those for the Russian planes, surely we haven't got the formula and composition of the same? But there was also an SCB at display at Aero-India which was not connected to the AL-31 (with which another SCB had been shown).

So where are we lacking in terms of the engine core design or materials? What sort of performance improvement will we see with the SCB and blisks then?

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

(1) Are there any companies in India either Govt ( but not BEL) or Private that can for the Indian Navy

a. assemble radar and/or electro-optical platforms and stabilizations systems.
b. Install and test radars, or EO systems.
c. Maintain and install upgrades to these systems.

(2) Do these companies have any possibility of winning contracts in the near future ?

Thanks,
Vikram

Defense and Aerospace said...

Prasun ,

Apart from PIPAV Defense are their any other Indian private company that is actively involved with the Indian Navy or are at least planning to be a supplier to the Indian Navy ?

Ankur said...

Prasun Sir ,

Why is THALES loosing out in INDIA to other companies especially when it comes to selling radar & EO systems ?

VMT

Bhaswar said...

Also, could you please explain the context of the tender by GTRE given below-

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/viewTender.jsp?paramMicro=4083

When we have gotten into blisk and SCBs then why is GTRE issuing a tender for the design and development of three stage 5:1 pressure ratio all Blisk fan? What was the response by companies to this tender?

Guptachar said...

I find it rather intriguing that Bhaswar and Subir are never on the same page - meaning - the two entities seem to never appear simultaneously.At one time it was 70% Subir, now 80% Bhaswar with occasional Bhaswar Kumar thrown in. It's not my blog and doesn't matter but just thought it is quite interesting. Reminds me of Satyajit Ray's Joto Kando Kathmandute where Mr Batra the victim turns out to be Maganlal's right hand man, Jagdish. LoL

Littlemaster said...

Sir,
1. What is acheieved by license producing Al-31FP blisks nd Scb in Hal Koraput? Had it been imported won't would the unit cost come down ?

2.Is the SWAK from Jslav Spc in service with IAF for the various classes of dumb bombs ? Since no such kits had been developed incountry won't it be prudeny to acquire some ?

3.Has the contract for Aps of leds-150 for 310 T-90M done ?

4.What will be the viability of coverting Nyma ALG into a full fledged airbase ? Its too close to the border for basing fighter fleets.

5. Recently ToI reported that an official associated with Bmd has revealed that the 2nd phase bmd is for shooting down enemy ballistic missiles in their land itself and protect border establishments. Can u pls shed aome light into this.

6.Isn't the Pdv meant for intercepting 5000 km class Irbm and Icbm atleast on paper. Why do you say its for DF-21 and Saheen-2 which aren't having more than 2500 km range.

rad said...


HI Prasun
2 nuclear sub techies killed !!! I suspect they have been
tortured for info and then killed.Also no marks on the body , clearly how do arihant engineers die in the same spot. scary.
also you mentioned that helina will have a active seeker like the brimstone, where will the targeting data come from .Also if it can fly 10 km from a ground launch then definitely it can go to 15 km in an air launch ,getting the advantage of height and speed of the carrying ac .please comment

Iceman said...

sir,
1.if arihant class submarines converted into SSGN in future then how many k-15 or nirbhay missiles will it carry?
2.is it true that barak-8 for iaf will be inducted only in 2018?
3.recently you have mentioned that us has proposed joint development in 10 areas except for javelin what are the other areas?
4.will Indian navy buy ins chakra after the expiry of its lease period?
5.recently indian army expressed an interested in acquiring 11 apache's
how many will be bought in future?
6.will rustom 2 drone will be powered by laghu shakti engine?
7.what is the LIFT version of Tejas?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

to #GESSLER you said 'Whether or not the IAF wants the LIFT version of the tandem-seat Tejas Mk1 is totally irrelevant, because the writing is there on the wall for all to see (common-sense) & eventually both the IAF & IN will have no other choice but to adopt it as a LIFT.' but that is only going to happen as & when MoD officially asks HAL to stop work on HTT40 & IJT 36.

You also say ' Therefore, both INS Vikrant & INS Viraat should be junked & scrapped ASAP after the arrival of INS Vikramaditya.' But i still feel instead of scrapping 2 ships with lot of history attached, sinking them and using them as diving destinations is much better idea.


In your reply to #Ashish you said ' the IAF should procure only 22 AH-64Ds that can also be used for CSAR support, while the AAC should procure no less than 150 LAH versions of the LCH' but if i am not wrong these 22 wont have radars atop rotors

also you say 'the AAC should procure no less than 150 LAH versions of the LCH' then what happens to LCH versions, will they simply be junked, though for Cheetal & Chetan chance for pvt players exists

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Millard Keyes said...

Prasun it just seems that the CBI is an affront to any intelligence/ investigative agency. Forever they tarnish companies without a shred of evidence; even when the accused challenge they do nothing to prove their guilt. They seem to act on news and journos rather than facts. Am I right?
On another matter: does the US simply ratchet up their status when they order big? For example 52littoral ships. Do they really need that many? How is it the Indians don't go for at least half a dozen littoral ships to use in the Andamans and Lakshadweep and for assistance to the Maldives, Seychelles, Mauritius if needed?

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun Ji ,

Has the FGFA deal with the Ruskies run into rough weather ? This article seems to suggest so .

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20131006/nation.htm?utm_content=buffer7f4d1&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Buffer#1

bipi342 said...

http://newindianexpress.com/nation/India-starts-process-to-extend-visa-on-arrival-to-40-nations/2013/10/07/article1823714.ece

giving visa on arrival facility for gulf country citizen,will it create security problem for Indian agencies.

Bhaswar said...

Prasun Sir,

things might not be going as well as we think they are-

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/Impasse-with-Afghanistan-may-see-total-US-pullout/articleshow/23600454.cms

The US government and the Afghan government seem to have reached an impasse.

From the above article-

""It is a practical truth," the administration official said, that without a deal, "Our Congress would not likely follow through on the assistance promises we've made, nor would other partners.""

If the impasse is not breached, and it seems it won't be, then the US seems to be serious about the zero troops option.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To BHASWAR: KABINI represents the ‘crawl’ era. KAVERI represents the ‘walk era. The airworthy version of KAVERI when available will represent the ‘jogging’ era. Producing metal-compounds/alloys using single-crystal technology is not the main challenge. Using such products for production-engineered blades/blisks is the main challenge. For the engine core, this, as well as producing the materials for fabricating the core are the principal challenges. Producing SCBs or blisks cannot make any difference at all if a suitable engine core doesn’t exist. The GTRE EOI (not tender) is for production-engineering related work for fabricating the airworthy version of Kaveri. As of now, no airworthy version of Kaveri exists & the one flown on an IL-76MD airborne testbed in Russia was an experimental model that could well have been tested in-country had GTRE possessed a high-altitude test-cell. The US still has plenty of time left to break any impasse, especially after reconciliation talks between the US & Iran are now underway & international pressure against Syria is now decreasing. And almost the entire Pakistan Army for the next 40 years at the very least will be condemned to function more as a Rashtriya Rifles-type counter-insurgency force & its conventional war-waging capabilities will be greatly dominished.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) There are quite a few. Elcon Marine, ALPHA Technologies & L & T teamed with EADS/Cassidian are some of them. 2) They’ve already won some major contracts & delivered them as well.

To DEFENSE&AEROSPACE: There are four of them: L & T, ABG Shipyard, Bharti Shipyard & Alcock Ashdown. However, the hidden truth is that barring L & T, these companies are ALL CASH-STRAPPED & that’s why ABG Shipyard has not been able to deliver not even one of the three training frigates that have been ordered for the IN, while Alcock Ashdown has been able to deliver only one catamaran-based survey vessel—INS Makar—and no one knows when the remaining five such survey vessels will be delivered. Situation is indeed very bad.

To ANKUR: That’s because THALES has been losing out due to its expensive price quotations. In comparison, US-based, Italy-based, Sweden-based & Denmark-based companies are much more price-competitive.

To LITTLEMASTER: 1) Of course it would have been cheaper. 2) No. 3) No. 4) It will be primarily an aerial logistics hub & that too used only for four months every year & that too by helicopters & transport aircraft, & not any combat aircraft. 5) Utter rubbish. 6) DF-21C/D’s ranges are far in excess of 2,500km.

To RAD: Daal mein zaroor bahut kuch kaala hain! Don’t forget that a Russian naval engineer’s hotel room & its room-locker were broken into last year. This engineer was part of the INS Chakra’s product warranty team. Targetting data for any ATGM equipped with MMW seeker will have to come from a target detection/ground moving target indication radar, meaning developing MMW seekers for ATGMs makes no sense unless & until a target detection/ground moving target indication radar is also developed.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ICEMAN: 1) Those figures are available on-line. 2) No way. It will be service-inducted early next year. 3) Will spell them out in as new thread. 4) It’s not available for sale. It never was & it will never be. 5) Another six. 6) Nope. 7) Same as tandem-seat Tejas Mk1.

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: IAF’s AH-64D Apaches will come with Northrop Grumman’s Longbow radars. Common-sense suggests that if the AAC gets its LAHs (which looks highly unlikely as of now), then the IAF will have no need for the LCH.

To PIERRE ZORIN: That’s because the CBI is denied the functional autonomy that it requires. Wherever the CBI has received such autonomy thanks to Supreme Court interventions, it has produced excellent results. The USN indeed requires such vessels for undertaking operations closer to shore & in restricted waters, such as off Somalia in the Horn of Africa & also in the Spratlys/Paracels in the South China Sea. The IN has been using littoral warfare warships since the late 1960s. All the missile gunboats, missile corvettes & ASW corvettes along with fast attack craft are optimised for littoral warfare. The ICGS’ entire fleet of OPVs & FACs too are capable of engaging in littoral warfare.

To AKHIL SURI: Just mischievous rumours.

To BIPI342: Of course not. On the other hand it will bring in more trade & investments, since the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) today constitutes India’s largest trading partner, thanks to the FTA between the GCC & India.

Anonymous said...

Can you hazard a guess as to why Pakistan refuses to sign the Fissile Material Cutoff Treaty?

Bhaswar said...

Sir how can the Kaveri represent the jog stage IF someone else is going to design its core and retain the IP/IR and know-how, without both of those its not really our engine?

Why do we even need anyone else to design this, after the engine did produce 49-52Kn of dry thrust in the tests- whatever needs to be done to make it flightworthy should not require any re-design of the whole core as such UNLESS THE KABINI CORE AS FAILED, HAS IT?

Besides the EOI states that its for an engine rated at 70+Kn dry and around 100Kn wet, that is not part of the K9+ progrmas' mandate at all?

So basically someone else is going to design the core for us and our core has failed, is that it?

joydeep ghosh said...

@Prasun da

you replied 'Common-sense suggests that if the AAC gets its LAHs (which looks highly unlikely as of now), then the IAF will have no need for the LCH.' that is exactly why i asked such question simply bcoz if the IAF/AAC go for LCH now & then find need for LAH, i suppose a lot of redesigning & upgrade will have to be done and i think the LCH cant be upgraded to LAH

BTW just got 2 good news (i think)

IAF will start inhouse development of trainer aircraft, this depicts distrust in HAL ability and it will allow IAF to have planes the way it wants

Russia unveiled the BMP Terminator 2 tank support vehicles, these i believe indeed is a mouth watering option for India with regard to mountain warfare

your views

thanks

Joydeep Ghosh

Vikram Guha said...

Thanks Prasun Da.

(1) So, what are the radars or sensors that are urgently required by the Indian Navy / Coast Guard ?

(2) Is DRDO working on these systems & have they been successful ?

Regards,
Vikram

bipi342 said...

its been while you said you you will post remaining part of three part report on china

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To Anon@9.8AM: No need to hazard any guess, since the truth is in plain sight for everyone to see. All the spent fuel from the 4 PHWRs from Khushab cannot be reprocessed anywhere inside Pakistan since there are no fuel reprocessing facilities in Pakistan. Consequently, all the spent fuel has to be ferried to China for reprocessing & China also supplies the natural uranium for these reactors, & this natural uranium has since the previous decade been obtained through Chinese miners from deposits located in Gilgit-Baltistan. China also is the custodian for all the reprocessed fuel (from which weapons-grade plutonium is obtained) & it also houses all the n-warheads reqd by Pakistan & these will be ferried to Pakistan in times of emergencies. That is the only reason why the PAF has procured 4 x IL-78MKs from Ukraine for use as strategic transport aircraft-cum-aerial refuellers. If you take a cursory glance of the map of Pakistan, its elongated geography becomes evident, meaning none of the PAF’s combat aircraft assets are in any need of aerial refuelling support when conducting defensive or offensive air campaigns. These IL-78MKs are now also being used for ferrying the JF-17 MRCA airframes in semi-knocked-down condition from Chengdu to Kamra for final assembly.

To BHASWAR: Does the EOI ever state who will be holding the IPR for these engine components? I had already explained earlier what production-engineering design is all about & it is totally different from what’s been available up until now from GTRE or HAL for either the KABINI or KAVERI. The airworthy KAVERI will be available in two flat-rated versions, as per present plans: one for the Aura USAV & the other for the AMCA. While the one meant for Aura can easily be developed without any external R & D inputs, the latter requires substantial inputs, especially regarding the engine core.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To JOYDEEP GHOSH: There’s absolutely no need to redesign the LCH in order to convert it into a functional LAH. Difference is only in terminologies: in the hands of the IAF the helicopter is known as LCH while in the hands of AAC it will be known as LAH. All the on-board sensors, self-defence suite, cockpit avionics & weapons packages will remain the same. The only addition reqd is a moving ground target detection/tracking radar that can be mounted atop either one of the two stub-wings, for providing fire-control cues for the MMW seeker-equipped HELINA in future.

As for in-house R & D on flying training aircraft, what this means is that the IAF will entrust ASTE & TACDE the task of optimising the Tejas Mk1 tandem-seat operational conversion trainer as a LIFT platform. Looks like at last what I had been advocating since 2008 may after all, take off at long-last!!!

As for acquiring something like the BMPT-2 MBT support platform, an innovative indigenous solution can easily be offered by the CVRDE quite quickly. The 40mm cannon-equipped turret developed for the Abhay ICV technology demonstrator can easily be modified to sit atop the T-72M1’s hull & the IRDE/OFB-developed commander’s panoramic sight for the T-90S MBT’s mid-life upgrade can easily be fitted to such a turret. Lastly, eight rounds of the laser-guided SAMHO version of the CLGM, when equipped with hyperbaric warheads, can easily go on board this turret as well. All that’s required is a laser illuminator/target tracker, which can easily be supplied by ELBIT Systems or even by IRDE. Indigenous APU & smoke/countermeasures dispensers developed for the T-90S MBT can also go on-board, as can ELBIT-supplied laser warning receivers, IR jammer & BMS terminal, along with IRDE-developed driver’s thermal imager & DEAL-developed MMW IFF transponder. Thus, as you can see, all the elements reqd for developing a ‘desi’ BMPT-2 are already available in-country & can be put together fairly easily & quickly. If this is done, then there’s no need to extend the service-lives of the 1,500+ T-72M1s & almost all of them can be modified into ‘desi’ BMPT-2s by private-sector players like L & T teamed with ALPHA TECHNOLOGIES, OFB & BEL. The remainder, plus existing T-72Ms, can easily be modified by L & T into CMF-72 for rapid minefield breeching. This, then will create the necessary demand for at least 700 more Arjun Mk1A MBTs. All these (desi’ BMPT-2, CMF-72 & Arjun Mk1A) are mouth-watering business options for India’s military-industrial complex.

To VIKRAM GUHA: 1) X-band maritime target search radars & naval IRSTs, plus X-band multi-mode airborne radars & optronic turret-mounted sensors for shipborne helicopters. 2) DRDO & BEL have in the past tried to develop such sensors, but such efforts have ended in failures. Now, CABS is trying to import airborne sensors & wants to be the systems integrator.

Anonymous said...

Prasunda, 1.IN once expressed interest to procure 4 AEW&CS ,for which Boeing-737 and Israeli CAEW were the preferred contenders.What happened to the matter? 2.There was a rumour that Chinese SSNs were in IOR for surveillance mission.Is it true? Is it possible to them to carry out such task with impunity? 3.If new P-8I carry equipments (e.g. IRST) to track nuclear powered submarines? Thanks,regards...UJJWAL

Vikram Guha said...

Thank You PrasunDa.

Last month CABS & DRDO had come up with an RFI for Supplying of Maritime Patrol Radar (MPR)
for Multi-Mission Maritime Aircraft (MMMA).

Can you please state which companies responded to it ?

Which Radar according to you best suits the requirement ?

Thanks again .

Vikram

K. SHEKAR said...

Sir which of the following legends/folklore actually depict real mythological creatures, and which are hogwash?

1) Bigfoot/Yeti
2) Werewolf
3) Mermaids
4) Wild men of neanderthals
5) Kraken
6) Chupacabra
7) Wendigo
8) Mothman
9) Reptilians/Lizard-men
10) Ahool
11) Pukwudgie
12) Vampires

Also 13) is the story of 'The Expressionless' woman true?

Please tell us what you know about the above 13 mythical beings/folklore stuff. There are many opinions on the net but I want to know your view.

Very thanks in advance.

Bhaswar said...

So basically we will complete the final leg for the 81Kn wet thrust variant ourselves while the 100Kn variant will come through foreign collaboration?

Sir New labs Rawalpindi and Khushab are listed as reprocessing sites- http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/pakistan/facility/rawalpindi.htm.

Sir IF turbofans are so difficult to design then how did Pakistan acquire the turbofan for the babur cruise missile and Ra'ad?

What does the suspicious death of the two fellows involved with the Arihant point towards, can such employees compromise essential project details under torture OR be in a position to pass on know-how?

AKHIL SURI said...

Prasun Ji ,

CNN IBN is reporting that as replacement for the Avro , MMS will sign a deal with Russia later this month .

Any truth in it ?

Thank You

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,

(1) http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/prithviii-testfired-again/article5213573.ece

(2) http://idrw.org/?p=27828#more-27828

Is the (2) incident caused panic hence did we test (1) back to back ?

(3) http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-10-07/india/42793486_1_railway-tracks-government-railway-police-railway-station

Do we lack strong counter-intelligence techs ?

(4) http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/midnight-blasts-sink-ins-sindhurakshak/article5020065.ece

On this incident . Is it 'stuxnet' type of virus that caused this ?

Also if you could answer my older posts i would be greatful

-- muttu


Anonymous said...

@bhaswar
y do u often make mr.prasun a custodian of indian security? or u r qs seems to me as if mr.prasun is accountable for this nations security?

raw13 said...

Guys, leave Subir alone. Unlike most he focuses on what he wants and doesn't care what we say. I have learnt much from Prasun's replies to him. In any case he is my guest, undergoing taining ;-).

@@Bhaswar, pakistan has had full fuel cycle for a long while now, just look at independent souces (UN, IAEA, US Congress, EU, etc). The issue was capacity.

If you want some books to read, try this one first, it is fully referenced:

http://www.amazon.com/Eating-Grass-Making-Pakistani-Bomb/product-reviews/0804776016/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

and then maybe this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Pakistan-Hard-Country-Anatol-Lieven/dp/1610391454/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_cp_10_3D10?ie=UTF8&refRID=1W47DY27YMNDGZDY2MXD

....you can find PDFs.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

I was reading the other articles you have written about the Indian Navy and a few questions come to mind :

(1) Under what circumstances is it legally possible for any foreign company to establish a joint venture with an Indian company in which the share of ownership and revenues of the resulting company can be more than 26—say for the foreign partner? For example in BRAHMOS , Russia has 49% .

(2)Is the EADS partnership with DRDO – forming EADS DS India Private Ltd a wholly owned subsidiary ?

(3) What is the company structure ATLAS is using to deliver in India—JV or something else?

(4) Has the MoD shot down the proposal to raised FDI in defense to 49% ?

Many thanx

Vikram

Ankur said...

Prasun Ji ,

Would the MoD be willing to relax the FDI cap if the foreign vendor wants to set up a wholly owned subsidiary for absorbing the technology?

Defense and Aerospace said...

Prasun ,

For those projects like the MAWS project where DRDO joins hand with a foreign company like EADS how do they share revenue ?

Does the foreign company gets a one time payment for it's involvement

OR

Does the foreign company get a % from every sale ( be it of a helo, aircraft etc) that is made .

Appreciate your insights .

bipi342 said...

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20131008/DEFREG03/310080011/India-Evades-Action-Special-Forces-Command?odyssey=nav%7Chead
what you said is happening on special forces command,according to you when we can excepect it will become operational.

D.Kishore said...

Hello Prasun ,

I fail to understand why the Indian Navy decided to purchase the ACTAS from ATLAS Electronik ?

L3 had a better product . Maybe it was expensive .

That is my assessment but technically I think L3 had a better ACTAS .

Would like to know your thoughts .

VMT

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To UJJWAL: 1) That plan has been put on hold. 2) Not true at all. 3) None.

To VIKRAM GUHA: Companies like IAI/ELTA, Selex Galileo & Raytheon & THALES have responded. The best offer from a technological standpoint is Selex Galileo’s Seaspray 7000E AESA-based MMR. The others are all making use of mechanically scanning antennae, which forces the radar to switch their modes of operation in a sequential manner, which is time-consuming. AESA-based MMRs on the other hand enable one to undertake simultaneous interleaved operations. Foreign corporate shareholding exceeding 26% & going up to 49% is allowed on a case-by-case basis & is by no means not allowed/shot-down. The door is still open for JVs like BrahMos Aerospace to be created within India. EADS/Cassidian has an industrial partnership with L & T. With DRDO the partnership is just for R & D purposes & not for commercial purposes. ATLAS Elektronik will directly deliver all its ordered hardware to the IN.

To BHASWAR: Firstly, fuel reprocessing facilities are NEVER located away from the nuclear power reactors. Secondly, any cursory search using GoogleEarth will reveal that there are no fuel reprocessing facilities at Khushab, just the PHWRs & their heavy water production plants. Turbofan for the Babur GLCM is the same as that used by Ukraine’s Korshun LACM & China’s CJ-10 GLCM/ALCM. China bought the Korshun’s IPR from Ukraine & then rebranded it as CJ-10 & Babur. Ra’ad uses a turbojet that is a clone of a Microturbo turbojet originally reverse-engineered by South Africa in the 1980s. IPR of this clone was shared with China in the mid-1990s & the China-built version of this cloned turbojet powers the Ra’ad & C-602 ASCM as well as the Turkish SOM tactical ALCM. I had explained all this in a dedicated thread in the latter half of 2011.

To AKHIL SURI: Total hogwash, as you may have realised by now.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To ANKUR: Of course. Such issues are always decided on a case-by-case basis & that was the very reason why BrahMos Aerospace was created in February 1998 with 49.5% Russian equity. For instance, given the sheer size & complexity of the Rafale M-MRCA procurement programme, it makes perfect sense for HAL, Reliance Aerospace, Dassault Aviation, SNECMA Moteurs & THALES to come together to form an India-registered corporate entity (public-private enterprise), with HAL owning 40% of the shares, Reliance another 40 & the rest being divided among the French companies. This kind of innovative solutions alone will make the Rafale industrial programme succeed in India, instead of pitting HAL against the combined alliance of Dassault & Reliance. The idea should be to share the cakew, instead of having the cake & eating it as well.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: 1) The partnerships between DRDO & any other foreign military-industrial OEM does not share any commercial revenue. Instead, both pump in their respective R & D funds to realise the R & D goals & all these are sunken costs. Once this is done, then the foreign OEMs team up with their Indian counterparts (like L & T and BEL) for production-sharing contracts. Following this, the foreign & Indian OEMs, in order to amortise such costs, prepare a commercial quote for supplying the developed products/solutions & submit it to the MoD, which is then approved. This is the route adopted, for instance, for the supply of integrated defensive suite for the Rudra ALH, Super Su-30MKI & EMB-145I by EADS/Cassidian, SaabTech, DARE, & BEL.

BIPI342: Not for another decade, at the very least. Regressive mindsets are to blame for this. Furthermore, such integrated commands are not possible to create for as long as the armed forces do not have a full-time Chief of Defence Staff.

To D KISHORE: Both are equally good, but ATLAS Elektronik was L-1 because it had already won the contract earlier for supplying the ACTAS for the Abhay-class coastal ASW corvettes & was therefore better positioned to submit a lower quote. But for the ultra low-frequency dipping sonar contract, L-3 Ocean Systems’ HELRAS is most likely to win the contract. Furthermore, such dipping sonars nowadays come mounted on unmanned autonomous vehicles, or remote-controlled RHIBs, that can sail up to 25km ahead of a naval task force to provide a barrier-screen, thereby making it almost impossible for hostile SSKs or SSNs to try to attack such task forces/carrier battle groups. The US-based OEMs have developed such solutions for both littoral warfare operations as well as for the high seas & the IN is highly interested in adopting such innovations. One wonders why the DRDO has failed thus far to conceive of such autonomous unmanned surface vehicles.

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To K SHEKAR: Most of them are just figments of the imagination. However, do watch these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3o-aQo74Ls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsfWyf3OsXg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wrg52KCdAs

Bhaswar said...

http://dawn.com/news/1048279/why-the-taliban-wont-succeed-in-afghanistan-now

Prasun sir, someone seems to be echoing your sentiments. Still not very optimistic about Afghan government's chances though, personally. The BSA is still hanging un-signed and the US is taking its sweet time with Iran.

What do you think of Amrullah Saleh, does he have a future in Af, will we see him take on a political mandate?

I think its far too optimistic of us to read into the American moves over Balochistan, they may be simply pressurizing Pakistan but Pak WILL NEVER sit idle if they try and separate Balochistan. What makes you think that Pakistan is going to face greater difficulties there? The BLA for one are far less active than the TTP?

So then why are Khushab and New Labs listed as re-processing sites?

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

It’s not just the US moves. In fact, the EU is far more concerned about Balochistan, since more than 6,000 Baluchis have already been discovered to be the victims of extra-judicial killings by Pakistan’s security establishment, & 14,000 more are still unaccounted for. And these figures are just for one province—Baluchistan. There are similar figures for other provinces such as KPK, FATA & Gilgit-Baltistan. And that’s the reason why the human rights violations in J & K pale in comparison to what’s happening inside Pakistan & that’s the reason why the world no longer takes note of whatever Pakistan tries to propagate WRT the human rights situation inside J & K. BLA & TTP cannot be compared. BLA is involved in a separatist insurgency against the PA’s proxies like LeT, LeJ & JeM, while the TTP is not & is instead fighting an ideological war against the Govt of Pakistan & Pakistan’s armed forces. Only those who’ve listed Khushab & PINSTECH’s New Labs as reprocessing sites can answer your last query.

financeblogger said...

http://i-hls.com/2013/10/turkey-again-angers-the-u-s-by-offering-helicopters-to-pakistan/?utm_source=activetrail&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=English%20Newsletter%2009/10/2013

In the above article, mention has been made, that w.r.t to the helicopter engine, US approval is required.

1) As per interactions on this blog, you have mentioned that Pakistan wants to reduce dependence on US. Bearing this in mind, what is the probability of this deal going through.


raw13 said...

How do you reduce dependence when the most important component aka the engine comes from US/UK?

Not only that US has set aside approx 400m USD from the Coalition Support fund to help PA/FC purchase heli's. Do you think they will be happy to see this going to TAI?



VIKRAM GUHA said...

Prasun Da ,

I found this report which makes for a good read about Anti Corruption practices that defense companies should adopt .

http://companies.defenceindex.org/report

Regards,
Vikram

Anonymous said...

Soo true it is:

http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-column-the-irony-of-india-story/20131011.htm

But the writer seems more optimistic about the situation which I don't agree!!

Your comments pls?

Cheers,
Hary

Unknown said...

Sir is there any chance that we will equip the P-15As with the RAN-40L ASRs later on, during their major overhaul? Also I can't find the correction you had made on the number of Barak-8s carried by the P-15As, how many does it carry again?

Sir is there any way to gain access to the GOI/official maps of Kargil which depict the loc and the peaks accurately? Is Tiger Hill situated west of the Drass town or East? The point marked as Tiger Hill on most of the google maps lies at an elevation of 4800-4900 meters while the tiger hill itself is called Point 4660, isn't the point named on the basis of its altitude?
How can one get a hold of accurate maps?

Unknown said...

Sir, how can a MALE UAV be powered by two laghu shakti engines when each of them only produces of 3.9Kn? Won't that limit the weight of the UAV and ergo the fuel carried, effectively limiting its range, how then can it be termed as a long endurance UAV?

How can you foresee the platform resembling the Talarion?

What will be the prospective range of the AURA? Wiki states above 300Km which is laughable if accurate- for a 6-8 ton platform? What will be the range?

Given that Rustom-1 itself is yet to be operational then what hope can we hold for something like the AURA or the Talarion like UAV surfacing in this decade?

K. SHEKAR said...

Sir you had previously stated that P-28 Kamorta corvettes do not carry any cruise missiles.

But the SIPRI Trade Register of 2012 states that Russia supplied 50 3M-54 Klub missiles for Project-28 Kamorta-class ships.

What is this?

reddy said...

Prasun, Where have you been? Are you alright, safe and healthy?

I might have come atleast few hundred times since your last comment/answer but could not find any updates from you.

Hope you are doing good.

Vikram Guha said...

Prasun Da ,

(1) Now that the RFI for Supplying of Maritime Patrol Radar (MPR)
for Multi-Mission Maritime Aircraft (MMMA)have been issued and a couple of companies have already responded , when will the RFP come out ?

(2) What benefit does India get from being a part of the PAK FA/FGFA project given the fact that the design was finalized even before India became a party to this?

Regards,
Vikram

Defense and Aerospace said...

Prasun ,

Patriot can deal with a Ballistic Missiles with a 1,000 km range.
S-300VM and S-400, a Ballistic Missiles with a range of up to 3,500 km. S-300VM and S-400 consistently outrange all versions of Patriot in terms of TBM footprint, aerodynamic engagement envelope, and TAR/TER radar range.

Even China , with it's far better knowledge & skill in developing BMD's has decided to purchase the S 400 from Russia .

Let's not forget that Akash is basically a remake of BUK 1 . This clearly reflects how far behind DRDO is when compared to even China.

Given the fact that DRDO hardly has the skill or the knowledge to develop a state of the art BMD system ,does it not make more sense to purchase the S 500 or at least the S 400 than waste billions of dollars on the home grown BMD which at best will be a PAC 2 ? No one knows when BMD will be completed.

If some pressure is exerted on Russia by India they will definitely sell the S 500 a few years down the line. Also , off the shelf systems will be a lot cheaper than the home grown BMD system. Even settling for the S 400 is not a bad idea .

Looking forward to your analysis of this situation .

VMT

Prasun K. Sengupta said...

To FINANCEBLOGGER: As RAW13 has succinctly explained, Turkey will be unable to sell the TAI-assembled attack helicopters to Pakistan. Furthermore, the Pakistan Army’s Aviation Corps is quite happy since the 1980s with its AH-1S/F helicopter-gunships & in future will be more likely to opt for either the Z-10 or Z-19 from China.

To VIKRAM GUHA: VMT. RFP’s usually come out 1.5 years after the RFI’s issuance, at the very latest. For FGFA, India’s role will be that of systems integrator for the on-board avionics suite. In addition, since all the design parameters of the airframe will be shared with India, the IAF won’t have to run back to the Ruskies for seeking such data whenever there’s a need to upgrade or modify the on-board avionics suite.

To BHASWAR KUMAR: Not the P-15As, but the P-15s to begin with. 48 Barak-1s. Maps are available in the book on the Kargil confluct penned by Capt (Ret’d) Amarinder Singh & also another book written by Lt. Gen Brahmi. Laghu Shakti will in future morphe into a more powerful engine, rest assured. In its present form, Laghu Shakti will be used for the 300km-range SAW ALCM. All performance specs of AURA are pure speculation at this stage.

To K SHEKAR: That’s clinching proof of the flaws inherent in such publications. I therefore always insist on obtaining such data directly from the OEMs.

To REDDY: VMT for your concerns. Have been spending the last 4 days catching up on various documentaries, which have all been listed in the latest thread.

To DEFENSE & AEROSPACE: But where’s the need for BMD in the first place? Neither the US, nor Russia, nor the EU, nor China possess a deployed continental BMD network or even a theatre-based network. Consequently, the MAD doctrine still holds good as opposed to the MAS doctrine.

Anonymous said...

Everybody has a dream, Prasun's dream is the abrogation of Durand line.

Anonymous said...

Prasun said >>that’s the reason why the human rights violations in J & K pale in comparison to what’s happening inside Pakistan

Killing of more than 75 thousand kashmiris alone by indian forces, with reports of mass graves of children and women have been reported by reputable news orgs. But they pale in comparison to Pakistans. Lol

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/09/mass-graves-of-kashmir

Mass graves of 2900 people reported by none other than THE HINDU

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/mass-graves-found-in-north-kashmir-containing-2900-unmarked-bodies/article59037.ece

Can anybody point out any reputable news org link of mass graves of KNOWN QUANTITY OF 2900 or more people, since we are talking about Pakistan superceding india in ranking of mass killings.

Here is another one about extra judicial killings you were mentioning happening in Pakistan. This by amnesty intl. about you guys.

https://www.amnesty.org/fr/node/4619


Stop dreaming mate, you guys are waayyy ahead of us.

mithra said...





That's interesting! Can you please share more about it? Thank you.




Naval Architecture

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